SPEAKER_00 0:05

Coming to you from Central Tokyo.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

This is Wild Branch Radio. Welcome back to another episode of Wild Branch Radio. I am your host, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

With his wife, Kumi. Oh yeah. That's me.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Indeed. We're coming to you from Central Tokyo here, and we have a very special guest with us today.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Which guest are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Yeah, well, we want to have spirit. We wanna him too. We want to have guests on the show, and we will be having some other people on the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Be talking to friends. Yeah, in the coming episodes.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

We're excited about that. But before we get into that, you know, we we've just jumped in with various topics that are really important to us, but we also wanted to take some time just for our listeners to get to know us too. So today um I'll be interviewing my lovely wife, Kumi.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Yeah, I get to start.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Yes. So why don't you start us off, Kumi? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Oh, so um, you want the short version probably. Well, it's since this is uh not a very long um episode. Yeah, I was born in Japan. Um I'm 51 years old.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Oh wow, you really give them all the details then.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, I don't care. Um I was born to Japanese parents, although interestingly, I get asked all the time if I'm 100% Japanese. I guess that comes from maybe having a foreign husband and half foreign-looking kids, maybe. Um, but I did spend five years um in my teens in Germany, which was at the time West Germany, and then I met Jesus in high school, which you know, I'm just listing big events in my life. Right. And then after that, I spent eight years in England because I didn't quite fit in or didn't quite know how to navigate life in Japan anymore after having spent some time in Germany.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Well, you weren't in England just to get away from Japan, though.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Um no, that yeah, I guess that that's that's not the main reason. Um I did meet some Christians that I wanted to just um do life with in England.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

So I think Christian living in community everything for Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

That's right. So that was uh in my twenties for eight years, and then I came back. I was planning on going back to England um after spending some time in Japan, but then yeah, life had a different plan.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Well, God had a different plan, right? God, yeah. Because you met me about right about that time, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Which that wasn't really why I stayed in Japan. Meeting Jeremy happened around that same time I decided to stay, but um yeah, I decided to stay in Japan, and then we we um lived in Osaka, both of us got married.

SPEAKER_02 3:13

There I mean there's so much you're you're just condensing, and you know, I'm sure we'll have other times to share some of those things. But you really felt the Lord ask you to stay in Japan, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah, which I guess um, you know, probably I had resisted for many, many years. And it's I would say it's still not really the easiest, but then I don't know if it's easier for other people. I I I can't I can't say.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

I mean you were in the German countryside.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I was ten years old, like literally thrown into the uh the deepest end, so to speak. Right. Yeah, and then I guess uh they you know there's been a lot of research about kids or people like me since then. At the time there wasn't really anything that I could read that would help that would have helped me. But yeah, when you spend some time outside of your original culture, even like coming back, you're just n not the same anymore. Right. And it's not that you fit it in better in one uh than the other, you just you know, there there's this kind of interesting, unique, I would say, uh feeling of just being in between constantly.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

And I think I have really come to um uh you know find peace in that.

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Yeah, in that in-between space. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

So in that can be a strength, actually.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

In some ways, like you you can really relate to the whole what they call like third culture kid dynamics. Well, that's me, yes, yes. Because you're foreign Yeah, it actually it is. I mean, your parents weren't weren't missionaries, but they foreign foreign parents. Foreign parents lived in uh living in Germany. In Germany. But then when I first met you, I I thought too, like, oh, is she is she half because you were so British. Like that I mean, just really that you're and and you know, you just come back, so all your clothes and fashion and hair and everything was was not Tokyo, much more UK.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Right. Yeah. Although you've never been to the UK. I still haven't.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yeah, I really I've always wanted to go to Europe.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Like your image of UK, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

And it you had never been to America either, so it's yeah, our our meeting was yeah, that's uh I mean that's a different story, but um I you didn't come to America until after we were engaged. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

But you never thought you'd marry an American.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

You know, interestingly, I had a friend uh when I was working in England, and for some reason she's she said to me that she could imagine, like me, being married to an American. Oh, really? And at the time I said no.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Oh, I'm very curious which which friend that would have been, but maybe you can tell me that. Yeah. Well, she was a co-worker.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

I'm I'm not in touch with her.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Oh, I see, I see. That's interesting. Well, I wonder what she didn't explain why.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

But it was in uh some context I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Well, I mean, that's all of those experiences too, they've really shaped your walk with the Lord, haven't they?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Right. Yeah. Um, so I think often people sort of like, you know, cut off life uh before Jesus and life after Jesus, which obviously it's very, very different. Um it's a blessing. But I do I do really believe that uh just God knows all of it. Right. You know, like he knows us even before we were conceived. Uh he formed us in our mother's womb. So just things that we experience, good and bad, like you know, whether it was before we knew Jesus or not, I think he can like really take all of it and turn them into something beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Not that, you know, uh I mean we we all have painful and um sad experiences that we wish that we wouldn't have um gone through. So I'm not saying that those were good, but um still I do believe that uh God can like really use those things.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

So there but there was definitely like pain and things in because of being in foreign environments and things things um yeah, things that um like happened to me that wasn't really you know my doing, and then things that you know mistakes I have made, um which I'm sure we all can say what that's like. So to continue, uh I got married to you and then we pastored uh in Sendai for some years, nine years actually, and then we moved to Tochigi for seven years. We lived there, and then came to Tokyo four years ago.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Four years ago, yeah. Now you've been one thing I think is really important too in talking about how that has shaped your walk with the Lord, you've been in a lot of different uh Christian contexts too, right? That's too, yeah. Your first Well when you were in Germany, some there was a Christian family, right? Which do you know what background they would have been?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

No, actually I had a um my first German teacher uh who helped me and my sister a lot, he was um he was a Christian. I think he lived at the church as well, that Luth like this little Lutheran church. And um I don't really remember hearing um about Jesus from him. I'm sure he did, I just don't remember. Um but I I do remember how kind and warm and generous he was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

And and he probably never knew how that how that how your life turned out. And so then your first when you got so your friend told you about Jesus, and then your first uh uh Japanese church experience was a really traditional evangelical conservative. Yeah.

unknown 9:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

And then you you went to uh Christian university at one point, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

But uh but then uh after that you you came you were filled with the Holy Spirit, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Koshian mission, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Yeah. Well, no, no. Uh no.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

No? Don't mention on any of that.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Well, it just gets too long. Um I think we will have another uh chance. Um yes, I was involved in Koshian mission, but I think most of you listeners won't really know um what that was outside of Japan. Um but yeah, I was filled with the spirit, and so um that's that's really a big reason why um I didn't stay with uh my study at university. And then after that I I went to England, which like when I when I met, I was just visiting um a friend over summer one year, and I met this church that like had lots of young people, just really passionate uh lovers of Jesus, and when I saw that I thought that's this is what I want.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah. Well, okay, so all of those things, like yeah, and and I I know that we weren't gonna go into deep detail about each of those things, but we wanted to talk today about like all that you've experienced. So what is really important in life to you?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, so because I've had so many like different you know seasons of life, like obvious uh, you know, changes and transitions, um, for a long time I felt like my life was just kind of fragmented and couldn't really make sense of it. But now I I have and I am beginning to, and I'm I still continue to. And I do really feel that life really is like me, this may sound really cliche, but our life really is a work of art. And we each are a work of art. And you know, we are like we we say all the time, right? Uh, for um our ministry as well, that you know, there's a story that we are co-writing with God, which is our life, and then there's the bigger story that God is writing in uh in history and all over the world with older believers and you know people, but like ultimately that God is the editor and he is the publisher, and like we we see from his perspective, and uh so I I really believe that each of us, like each of the life that we live is worth telling and sharing with others. Um, because like you know, each of us experience life differently, and even you know, being put in the same environment and given the same outward experiences, um, we experience them and we like you know, our feelings and our perception and thoughts, we experience them differently. And so like how we experience it, I think is worth sharing and telling and expressing because that is that is just really the expression of God that um we get to show the world.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

Yeah, that's so good. I I actually was listening to something recent recently and they were saying something similar about about stri you know, well just the idea of story, but they were they were saying, you know, the they were saying something about you're the main character of the story, but uh actually we're we're invited into a much bigger story than just our own life, isn't it? Yeah, we're God actually invites us into um onto a much bigger stage. Yeah, so uh when we're one one aspect of that when we're talking about the story, I it the story of your life and how it's beautiful and worth sharing, it's um it's it's not that you're the mean c main character and that everything in your walk with God revolves around you. And that's actually like an exciting um I think so place to be, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, another thing um I would say, you know, that I I you know believe about life is um um it's it's a little similar to what I just said already, but we have different phases, different seasons and mistakes, uh things that we wish weren't that the way they were. But is that I I really believe that we all get uh second chances and third and fourth and like really countless chances in this life, and we get to always like well it's not us, but God can really rewrite the narrative. And and so I think we can just sort of like, you know, in a way sit back and be the learner and uh stay curious how God can like develop it and how we can like you know take risks and take second chance and sort of you know try a different way.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Is there is there a specific example of that that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Or you've you've just experienced God really rewriting actually, um I am writing uh writing down my life story. It's it's really a gift to myself. I'm not really thinking publish it or anything. But in that, I am also writing how like you know, there was a time in my 20s when I really just thought. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this, but I really thought my life was just over.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

After you met Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

After I met Jesus, I just messed it up too much for it to be redeemed, uh which, you know, I didn't realize that he was already redeemed, but you know. And I just until then I was just so like passionate and so like full of zeal, and I get to love Jesus and this is my life. But then there was a point when I thought, oh, it's really not me, and I just gonna have to just let go of this all this striving and holding on to him in my own strength and just kind of let it be, let myself fall. And and uh only then did I realize that God was big enough to catch me, and so that was such a relief and and to to really know that we can't ever mess up too much, you know, or too or go too far away that God can't catch us or find us.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

Well, what really what I hear you expressing, I mean that's a real that's a real like conviction of faith and somebody who's experienced God's grace and the the f faith that his his ability is bigger. His ability is more to fix our fix our lives than our ability to mess it up.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Yeah. So I want to say if anybody is listening to this and you feel like uh it's you know um it's done or it's um I'm done. Uh this is too bad or I'm hopeless, whatever, you know, whatever we think. Uh it is not that way because God is big enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. So I I've heard you say a few things. So you talked about that how life is really a work of art. And uh you you talked about staying a learner, yeah, learning and staying curious, like that. I hear you use those kind of words a lot.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah. I guess uh because I've experienced some like really dark seasons in my life, um, I also can say that I this is this is something I say to myself all the time, but don't forget to play. Um, because there's not really that many things that we need to take so seriously in life. And life is really to be enjoyed. It's a a window for seeing God's beauty, and so yeah, it um that playfulness is really, really key to staying creative and to staying God, uh to seeing God's beauty in um everything that surrounds us. And then like um a few other things, um, I want to be generous. Um I think like some people might say that like giving away your time, your life, um, your energy to things that you can't really measure is naive and it's it's pointless. But uh again, I I want to stay playful enough to say, no, it's fine. I can be generous and I can just pour out. Yeah, so uh, and then um when I say generous, it's it's really about people. We we talk about this all the time, but we want to prioritize people and relationships over, you know, um getting some projects done or achieving something. Um so we want to stay foolish and playful enough to to be able to live that way.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

You know, it reminds me I I heard this uh I heard this um surgeon give a mess message. It was actually if you want the whole the whole little more context. Um it was a surgeon that operated on my dad. My dad invited him to speak at the church after he recovered, and that that was a whole uh story.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

But have I heard that before?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I don't know. Um but this surgeon, I still remember his message because it was just centered on this one phrase because he he says he's with people and on their when they're facing death.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:44

And and he said, I never I never have heard anybody say, I wish I would have worked harder. You know, I wish I would have been more serious, you know. He but but they but he has heard this repeatedly, and the phrase was I wish I would have loved more. And so I I hear you kind of saying something a little similar uh there, like not not looking back at your life, there's there's no moments where you think I should have been more serious.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, I think especially in Japan, there's so many things, especially even for kids in schools, that they're told, well, it has to be this way. You know, you you can't mess this up or um whatever. And I just think yeah, it's so it's fair enough, like when you're growing up you do need to learn discipline. But I just think that there are so many opportunities and there are so many different ways of doing things that um if you think one didn't work, you can try another.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

There there is a lot of opp uh a lot of pressure on kids not to make a mistake. Right. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah, that that that is and that that's sad. We've had a lot of conversation with our kids that it's you you have to to find the really good things, you have to be willing to explore and to try and and to to be okay to make mistakes.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Which I mean for adults, it's hard to make a mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

I mean that never goes away either, does it? And actually, sometimes as we get older, uh I don't know if I've said this to you, but I've I've known for myself, I have to come back to that place of humility because it's it's really humbling to try something new because I'm used to we get used to our proficiency, right? We're we're good at certain things, we're comfortable, and probably men have this especially, you know, we get we're good at our job or our you know, our hobby or whatever, and then when you go do something new or go into a new environment, you have to be okay with like feeling stupid. That that really

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Remember when I um went to work at the uh clothes store? Yes, yes. And I was in my mid-40s and kind of in between in between uh time. And uh I thought I'd just you know uh do it for fun, and it was so hard. It was so hard because it was not fun, huh? Things things that I hadn't ever done before. And I did even though it was hard, I I did say to myself, I remember, um, this is good to be a learner and to be a beginner again, because um this this kind of um humbling experience is necessary for us.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah, it's true, it's true. And I I think maybe that's one reason that's necessary for staying who we are. Yeah, staying for staying who we are, but also for growing, continuing to grow, right? And maybe that's one reason why sometimes we stagnate, like we don't we uh we don't we're not growing because we're not pressing into those new those new fields, new areas, new experiences.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And and uh environments and experiences where you can't really uh foresee the outcome. And I do I do like this uh phrase like live and unc all can uh uh can I can't say uncalculated. Is that the right word?

SPEAKER_02 23:31

Uncalculated, yeah. Life Yeah, wow that's very un-Japanese.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

I guess so. I guess so. So that's that's why I get asked all the time, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

If if somebody's listening to this and they they, you know, maybe that's kind of sparking some ideas, but they they have not been living in that way. Like what what are some practical ways that people could come back to curiosity and playfulness and that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Um I I I would say like going back to my first point though, first model, maybe I would say that life is a work of art and uh and really see things from his perspective because then everything changes. Like when we are looking at our life and just comparing with other people and the you know all the different narratives that we are told that things should be, it's hopeless, it's it's discouraging, depressing. But when you see it from God's perspective, there is never a lack of hope. You know, there's always some way that you can you can find.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

You know, it it's interesting you that we're we're talking like this, and you you mentioned that because in my devotional reading today, it was where Jesus appeared to the disciples after he rose from the dead and he restores Peter.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Right. You know, oh yeah, that's such a personal one for me.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

And so, you know, Peter has denied Jesus, and I mean he didn't just deny him half halfway, like he means he cursed and everything in front of everybody while Jesus is on trial. And I I was just thinking this morning, like that Jesus didn't lead Peter in a prayer of repentance. Now I know like Peter went, he says he went and he wept bitterly, and I'm sure he prayed and repented. So I'm not I'm not saying uh He didn't repent. He didn't repent. But what Jesus did was like he let him he let him speak or he let him declare like who he really was.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

And and I thought one thing that really stuck out to me, and I I wouldn't make any big theological claims about this, but Jesus, his first question he said, geez uh he said, Peter, do you love me more than these?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

And I was like, Oh, is he comparing disciples? You know, like like I think that was Peter's maybe like Peter's passion or Peter's identity. Like he was just like of all the of all the disciples, he's the one who's He was the most over the top, like full full on, zealous. And uh That was me.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

That was me too.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

And but Jesus let him say that. Like he didn't, like he didn't shoot him down and said, Oh yeah, Peter, don't think you're so great compared to anybody else.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Well don't compare.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

He's like, Do you love me? And and and and Peter's like, Yes, yes, I do. I do. And so he's like saying, he's like leading him in a declaration really of who he actually is to the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Yeah. So that's that's just really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

Yeah, that's that's our Jesus, that's how He is, and that's how He restores us. So yeah, there's there's just so much hope.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah. Any final thoughts or words of wisdom to share on this episode, Kumi?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I think being generous and being available for people is really so worthwhile. And uh I think it gets us out of this, you know, calculating outcomes and like measuring uh success sort of mindset. Because like with people, you're spending time with people, you're spending money on people, you're you know, pouring out love for people. Uh you you can't you don't really know how much it's gonna cost, right? And it's you mentioned Peter, but like Jesus said, feed my sheep, yeah, right? And so that was the response of like you know, Peter coming being restored, and then like loving Jesus, and how how is he gonna show that in feeding the sheep? And so I think um that's how much people like each one of us is in God's heart and mind and how important it is to him. And so um, yeah, just to it's a challenge sometimes, or often, but um, I think it's a privilege to be challenged that way, to love more, to be more generous with love and time and resources.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

That's beautiful. Yeah, there's there's something about where I w when you were saying something about that, I just had this image of where you you're taking time with people and it's like you have that margin, it's like you give that margin that maybe you don't actually have, you know, but you you slow down.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

You know, and you you look at them. Yeah. And it's like it's not like I have a half hour to give you, and that's it, you know, but it's like okay, it bleeds into 45 or 50 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

And uh, and there's like that that non-rushedness, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

But when you make that decision, you actually enter into that grace of like living differently to how the world is.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Really a different, a different pace, isn't it? Well, that's that's beautiful. And uh, yeah, I think that's uh definitely a snapshot of of who you are and how you live. But we'll cover those things more, I'm sure, in future episodes.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Maybe next next episode we'll uh hear about Jeremy's story.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Oh yeah, I can't wait. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, if you're in the Tokyo area, we'd love to hear from you. And uh we have uh more and more events that we're doing that we're inviting people in. Uh, we also have a lot in Japanese, uh Japanese content that we are creating that we'll be putting out on YouTube. And uh, if you want to find out more, you can go to wildbranch.jp and there's a form on there, and we would love to hear anything, any questions or uh any comments that you have. We're always excited to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Uh you can also find us on Instagram, wildbranch.jp.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Oh, that's true. Yeah, and that we have all our event announcements on there, right? Yes. But until then, we will talk to you again soon. Have a great rest of your week.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

You have been listening to Wild Branch Radio. Wildbrand is a new national community based in Tokyo, making space for God's heart. You can find out more about us on our website, wildbrands.com. If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, please follow us on Twitter and on Instagram and subscribe to our new Twitter app.